Method and system for message pacing

ABSTRACT

A system for managing message volume and timing, which permits first and second messages to be spaced apart over time, with the pacing controlled in part by a characteristic of the second message. The system receives a first message and sends the first message to an intended recipient. When the system receives a second message for the recipient, the system determines a separation based on a pacing algorithm and send the second message to the recipient according to the separation.

CROSS-REFERENCE TO RELATED APPLICATIONS

This application is a continuation of, and claims a benefit of priorityunder 35 U.S.C. 120 of the filing date of U.S. patent application Ser.No. 13/190,246, by inventor Brian Reistad, entitled “METHOD AND SYSTEMFOR MESSAGE PACING,” filed Jul. 25, 2011 now U.S. Pat. No. 8,260,870,which is a continuation of, and claims a benefit of priority under 35U.S.C. 120 of the filing date of U.S. patent application Ser. No.12/566,364, by inventor Brian Reistad, entitled “METHOD AND SYSTEM FORMESSAGE PACING” filed Sep. 24, 2009 now U.S. Pat. No. 8,065,375; whichis a continuation of, and claims a benefit of priority under 35 U.S.C.120 of the filing date of U.S. patent application Ser. No. 11/818,192 byinventors Brian Reistad et al., entitled “METHOD AND SYSTEM FORFACILITATING MARKETING DIALOGUES filed Jun. 13, 2007, issued as U.S.Pat. No. 7,647,372; which is a continuation of, and claims a benefit ofpriority under 35 U.S.C. 120 of the filing date of U.S. patentapplication Ser. No. 11/353,792 entitled “METHOD AND SYSTEM FORFACILITATING MARKETING DIALOGUES” filed on Feb. 14, 2006, issued as U.S.Pat. No. 7,389,320; which is a continuation of, and claims a benefit ofpriority under 35 U.S.C. 120 of the filing date of U.S. patentapplication Ser. No. 09/621,913 by inventors Brian Reistad et al.,entitled “METHOD AND SYSTEM FOR FACILITATING MARKETING DIALOGUES” filedon Jul. 24, 2000, issued as U.S. Pat. No. 7,127,486, all of which arefully incorporated herein by reference.

FIELD OF THE INVENTION

This invention relates to methods and systems for managing online andother communications.

BACKGROUND OF THE INVENTION

With the growth of use of the Internet, more and more people have accessto e-mail, and more and more entities use e-mail to communicate withcustomers, potential customers, or other people of interest. In, forexample, a marketing context, companies periodically send e-mails tocustomers with new product information, special offers, company news, orother information.

As a result, recipients find themselves receiving more e-mails than theywant to read. Recipients may get angry at the sender, may “opt-out” offurther mailings (if that option is available), or may simply stopreading the mailings. Thus, the benefits from sending mailings arereduced and recipients may not get information they otherwise would havefound useful.

SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION

According to the present invention, message volume and timing ismanaged, preferably for both messages from a single message source andmessages from multiple, independent message sources. In one embodiment,a centralized message pacing system is used, which regulates whenmessages are sent to recipients. In another embodiment, each messagesource uses a commonly-accessible data repository to determine when itsends messages, so that the timing of messages from each message sourceis coordinated.

The invention permits messages to be spaced at regular or other periods,depending on the type of message, its priority, or other factors. Inaddition, the invention permits messages to be combined in accordancewith a set of rules, so as to reduce the number of separate messagesthat each recipient receives. Also, the invention permits the pacing ofmessages to be monitored, so that if a message is not sent to arecipient within a specified time period, one or more message sourcesare notified. Either the sender or the recipient can have control overthe message pacing, both with respect to the timing of messages and thetypes of messages.

The invention is applicable generally to various types of communicationschannels. In a preferred embodiment, the invention is used inconjunction with a marketing system, such as the system described incommonly-assigned patent application Ser. No. 09/621,913, entitled“Method and System for Facilitating Marketing Dialogues,” which isincorporated herein by reference.

BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF THE DRAWINGS

FIG. 1 is a block diagram of a system according to an embodiment of thepresent invention.

FIG. 2 is a representation of a structure for use with an embodiment ofthe present invention.

FIG. 3 is a block diagram of a system according to an embodiment of thepresent invention.

FIG. 4 is a flow diagram of steps performed according to an embodimentof the present invention.

FIG. 5 is a flow diagram of steps performed according to an embodimentof the present invention.

FIG. 6 is a flow diagram of steps performed according to an embodimentof the present invention.

FIG. 7 is a representation of a structure for use with an embodiment ofthe present invention.

DETAILED DESCRIPTION OF PREFERRED EMBODIMENTS

Referring to FIG. 1, a network includes various message sources 12, apacing system 14, and a recipient 16. Although only a single recipientis shown, for clarity, it is understood that the pacing system may beapplied to multiple recipients. Pacing system 14 includes a data storagesystem 18, such as a database system, that is used to store pacing andmessage information. Messages 20 intended for recipient 16 (and possiblyfor other recipients as well) are sent from message sources 12 overcommunication paths 22, 24, and 26 to pacing system 14. Although shownas separate communication paths, paths 22, 24, and 26 could all be partof a single network, such as the Internet. The communication paths alsocould involve wide area networks (WANs), local area networks (LANs),dedicated communication paths, or any other communication channel. Or,the message sources 12 and pacing system 14 could be components on thesame system, using direct procedure calls or inter-processcommunications.

Pacing system 14 forwards messages 20 on to recipient 16 over one ormore channels 28 according to a pacing algorithm. For example, messagesmay be delivered no more than once every n time units (such as onceevery 7 days). The value of n can be different for each recipient, andcan vary for different types of messages or different delivery channels.In a preferred embodiment, one channel 28 is an e-mail channel and asecond channel is a phone channel. Facsimiles, pagers, regular mail, andany other communication channel could also be included.

Preferably, as shown in FIG. 2, each message 20 that pacing system 14receives has, in addition to its content 120 (including the identity ofthe recipient, the recipient's address, and the message to bedelivered), a set of delivery properties, including: an expiration date102 and a priority 104. After the expiration date, the message will bediscarded if it has not yet been delivered. Optionally, some messagescan have no expiration date. In a preferred embodiment, there are threelevels of priority, high, normal, and low, with normal being the defaultvalue. Generally, higher priority messages are delivered before lowerpriority messages. However, the priority can be treated as one factor,along with the expiration date, in determining which message to deliver.Some messages also may be marked as “always deliver,” (field 106 in FIG.2) indicating that it should be delivered before its expiration date,even if that would be sooner than provided by the pacing algorithm. Forexample, if messages are to be delivered no more than once every 7 days,and an “always deliver” message would expire 4 days after the lastmessage was delivered, then it would be delivered after 4 days.Preferably, the 7 day period would be restarted after the “alwaysdeliver” message is sent. Optionally, messages can be marked as “urgent”(field 108) and delivered immediately, regardless of when the lastmessage was delivered. An “urgent” message may or may not re-set thedelivery timer.

According to one embodiment, pacing system 14 will accept each messageit receives from each message source 12. Other than with “alwaysdeliver” or “urgent” messages, pacing system 14 then waits until n timeunits after it sent the last message to recipient 16. Pacing system 14then considers all messages that have not been delivered and have notexpired. The message properties are then used to select a message todeliver, For example, pacing system 14 could select the message with theshortest expiration date, using priority as a tie-breaker. Or, pacingsystem 14 could select the message with the highest priority, usingexpiration date as a tie-breaker.

Also, combinations of these and other properties of the message can beconsidered. For example, the recipient could designate certain sendersas higher priority than other senders. In addition, pacing system 14 cantreat message channels individually or in combinations. Thus, messagessent by e-mail may have no effect on the timing of telephone calls (andvice versa), messages sent by e-mail and telephone calls could betreated together for timing (that is, no call is made or e-mail sentuntil n days after the last call or e-mail), or some combination ofthese extremes could be used. For example, calls could be separated byat least 14 days and e-mails could be separated by at least 7 days, withthe added requirements that an e-mail cannot be sent for at least 3 daysafter a call and a call cannot be made for at least 4 days after ane-mail. As another example, message timing can be based at least in parton categorized message types.

Instead of a centralized pacing system, a central pacing storage system214 can be used, as shown in FIG. 3. In this embodiment, each messagesource 212 sends messages directly to recipient 216, through channel 222or channel 224. For example, channel 222 could be an e-mail channel andchannel 224 a phone channel. Although only two channels are shown, it isunderstood that more channels could be used. In addition, each messagesource 212 is connected to pacing storage system 214 over network 226.Of course, it is understood that network 226 and one of the channels(such as e-mail channel 222) could overlap (if, for example, both usethe Internet). Pacing storage system 214 maintains for each recipient216 message managing information, such as a record with the value of n(the timing between messages) and the date the last message was sent tothat recipient. If the value of n is global for all recipients (or agroup of recipients), then it is understood that its value may bemaintained for each recipient without storing separate instances of thevalue for each recipient. Where appropriate, pacing storage system 214may maintain records of the date the last message was sent on eachchannel or in each category.

When a message source 212 is ready to send a message to a particularrecipient, the message source checks with pacing storage system 214 todetermine when the last message was sent and the timing interval n. Or,message source 212 may make a request for whether a message can be sentto the recipient, in which case pacing storage system 214 wouldcalculate whether the current date is greater than the date the lastmessage was sent plus the timing interval, and respond to message source212. If the new message can be-sent, message source 212 sends themessage and informs pacing storage system 214, so that the date of thelast message can be updated. If the current time is less than the timinginterval since the last message was sent, then message source implementsa pacing algorithm to determine when to try again. For example, themessage source could wait until the end of the interval and then checkagain. Or, if this is an “always deliver” message, the message sourcewould wait until the message is about to expire and then send themessage.

The message gap can vary based on the priority of the message. Forexample, the message gap for a high priority message could be 3 days(that is, 3 days since the last contact of any priority), with themessage gap for a normal priority message 7 days, and the message for alow priority message 14 days. Also, the message gap can vary based onthe prior message. So, for example, a low priority message can be sent 7days after a high or normal priority message, but not for 14 days aftera low priority message.

In a preferred embodiment, pacing system 14 uses storage system 18 tokeep track of the message gap or gaps (which can be a global value, orpersonalized for each recipient), and the following information for eachrecipient: T_(last) (the date of the last contact, which could benever); T_(next) (the earliest date at which the recipient can becontacted); and S_(msgs) (the set of messages to be sent to therecipient). For each message, pacing system 14 records the arrival date,so that messages with the same priority and expiration date can beprocessed according to a “first-come, first-served” algorithm.

One way for the pacing system to decide, as each new message arrives,whether it should be sent immediately or placed in the data store, isshown in FIG. 4. A message arrives at step 310. Pacing system 14 thendetermines (step 312) whether the message is marked “urgent.” If so, themessage is sent (step 314) and the process ends (step 316). It isassumed, with this example, that urgent messages do not cause the timergap to be reset. If the message had not been marked urgent, the pacingsystem looks up the last contacted date (T_(last)), at step 318, anddetermines if the recipient had previously been contacted (step 320). Ifthe recipient had not previously been contacted, the message is sent(step 322). The pacing system then updates the last contacted date (step324), looks up the message gap (step 326), and updates the next contactdate (T_(next)) at step 328. The process then ends (step 330). However,if the pacing system determines at step 320 that the recipient had beencontacted, then the message is inserted into the database by updatingS_(msgs) (step 332). The process then ends (step 334). Alternatively,the lookup message gap and update next contact date steps (steps 326 and328) can be performed if the recipient previously had been contacted. Inthis case, those steps preferably would be performed after inserting themessage in the database at step 332. With this alternative, the pacingsystem would not “wake up” (as discussed below) unless a message iswaiting in the database.

This process also can be implemented in a number of other ways. Forexample, the system could let the next contact date have a value of“immediately” when the last message gap has expired (or no messagespreviously have been sent), and use that value at step 318 (instead ofthe last contacted date) to determine whether a message should be sent.Similarly, the system could check whether the next contact date is priorto the current time. Or, a separate flag (such as a “window open” flag)could be tested at step 320 to determine whether a message can be sentimmediately.

Using timers or periodic queries, pacing system 14 “wakes up” when thenext contact date arrives. The pacing system then determines whichmessage to send, then resets the message dates.

One way to implement this process is shown in FIG. 5. At step 410 theprocess begins. The pacing system first deletes expired messages, atstep 412. Then, the pacing determines whether any active messages remain(step 414). If not, then the system deletes the last contacted date(step 416), so that when a new message arrives it will be sentimmediately. The process then ends (step 418). If, at step 414, thesystem determined that one or more active messages remained, themessages preferably are sorted by priority, expiration date, and arrivaldate (step 420). Alternatively, other selection processes can be used.After sorting the messages, the system sends the highest prioritymessage (step 422). The system then updates the last contacted dateT_(last) (step 424), deletes the sent message from the set S_(msgs)(step 426), and updates the next contact date (T_(next)) at step 428.The process then ends (step 430). If, instead of checking (at step 320of FIG. 4) the last contacted date, the system checks for whether thewindow is open, then step 416 could be omitted. Or, if at step 320 thesystem checks the next contact date for an “immediate” value or value inthe past, then step 416 would be replaced with updating the next contactdate to the immediate value, or omitted.

Alternatively, with either of the above systems, to select which messageis sent (and when the message is sent) the system (the pacing system,where a centralized pacing system is used, or each message source wherea centralized storage system is used) could assign delay times based onthe message properties and a random number. In this alternative, thesystem sends messages during an open window period. The window is openif the last message was sent at least n time units previously, where nis the message gap. The message gap can be the same for all recipientsor can vary by recipient. Otherwise, the window is closed and themessage is delayed until a point in time shortly after the window isexpected to open. If the window is still closed after the delay, theprocess repeats.

With the use of an open window period, because each message is processedindividually, the length of each message delay is staggered, so thatmessages with a higher priority “wake up” before messages of lowerpriority. For messages with equal priority, the delay is adjusted sothat those with shorter expiration dates wake up before messages withlonger expiration dates. For messages with the same priority andexpiration date, a random factor is used to ensure they do not wake upat the same time. In a system with a single engine or processorexecuting the programs for sending messages, it may also be the casethat only one message is processed at a time, which will lead to onemessage being processed first, and the other message then waiting untilthe window re-opens. Preferably, the wake up time (T_(wake)) isdetermined using the following algorithm:T _(wake) =T _(open)+[priority weight]+5 min*(20,num_weeks[T _(exp) −T_(open)])+ran(0-5 min),where T_(open) is the time that the window opens, calculated as:

-   -   T_(open)=(last contacted date+message gap).        and where T_(exp) is the expiration time (that is, the        expiration date of the message) and where [priority weight] is 0        hours for high priority messages, 2 hours for normal priority        messages, and 4 hours for low priority messages. Alternatively,        a simpler algorithm employing only some of these factors, could        be used, or a different algorithm could be used. Also, the        algorithm can consider the message channel as well (as discussed        above), so that messages in one channel (such as e-mail) are        considered independently of messages in another channel (such as        phone calls or facsimiles), or so that prior messages in one        channel affect when messages can be sent through another        channel.

One way to implement this selection process is shown in FIG. 6. Theprocess begins at step 510, when a message arrives or a message wakesup. At step 512, the system determines if a message is marked “urgent.”If it is, the message is sent (step 514) and the process ends (step516). If, at step 512, the message had not been marked urgent, thesystem determines (step 518) if the message has expired. If so, theprocess ends (step 520). If not, the system looks up the last contacteddate (step 522) and the message gap for this recipient (step 524). Thesystem then checks (step 526) whether the current date is greater thanthe sum of the last contacted date plus the message gap. If so (or ifthe recipient had not previously been contacted), then the message issent (step 528). The system then updates the last contacted date (step530) and ends (step 532). If the current date was not greater than thesum of the last contacted date plus the message gap (that is, the windowis closed), then the system waits (step 534) until the window opens,then returns to step 518. This ensures that the current message will beprocessed before another message that wakes up while the system waits.The window could be closed, for example, because another message hadbeen sent since the wake-up time for that message had been calculated.Alternatively, if the window was closed, the message could go back tosleep for a specified time period and the process could end, which couldmean that another message will be processed before it if the othermessage wakes up first.

In addition to determining the timing of messages, in a preferredembodiment the pacing system can be used to manage message volume.Message volume management mechanisms include aggregating messages,discarding similar messages, and stimulating messages. Thus, volumemanagement can be used both to reduce and to increase the number ofmessages, depending on the message volume.

For aggregating messages, as shown in FIG. 7, messages can be assignedthe additional properties of type 610 and topics 612. A message typeindicates the kind of content contained in the message, such asinformational, advertisement, or cross-sell. The message topics indicatethe subjects that the message contains, such as the type of product towhich an offer relates. The message topics also can refer to the sourceof a product or offer, where information or products from differentsources may be offered.

The pacing system, in this example, still accepts messages from themessage sources. Given a pool of messages, pacing system 14 can select asubset of the undelivered messages and combine them into a singlemessage to be delivered at one time. To do this, pacing system 14 isconfigured with a set of rules and templates for combining messages. Therules could be, for example, “no more than two advertisements in amessage,” “at least one informational item in a message,” and rulespreventing certain message topics from being combined in a singlemessage. For example, a rule might ensure that information about a newhumidifier is not sent along with information about a new dehumidifier.These rules would work with the selection rule to determine whichmessages are combined into the single message. The templates describehow to format the messages. For example, informational items are placedon the left side and advertisements are placed on the right side, or twoadvertisements must be separated by some other type.

In addition, messages can be identified as carriers or tag-alongs (field614 in FIG. 7). Tag-along messages are placed in a priority queue orqueues. When a carrier message is about to be sent, the message sourcechecks the tag-along queue(s) and selects one or more items to add tothe carrier message in accordance with a set of rules. The rules could,for example, limit the number of tag-alongs per message or the types oftag-alongs that can be combined in a single message, and could preventtag-along messages with certain topics from being combined with certaincarrier messages or tag-along messages of specified types or topics. Thetemplates, in this case, may describe how to format the carrier messagerelative to the tag-along messages, and the tag-along messages relativeto each other.

Optionally, messages also can identify the channel or channels (field616) over which a message can be sent. The channel identifier 616 may beused, for example, to determine which messages to aggregate, so that thepacing system will aggregate messages being sent over the same channel.Also, the channel identifier 616 can be used so that the pacing systemcan choose one of several channels to use for message delivery. This mayapply, for example, to optimize aggregation or to minimize the delaybefore a message is sent to a particular recipient. In one embodiment,channel identifier 616 is used to determine the channel by which to senda message when the delay periods over different channels are different.Optionally, where multiple channels are identified, other fields (suchas priority field 604) can have an entry for each channel.

Where recipients have the ability to “opt-out” of receiving certainmessages or it may otherwise be determined that a message should not besent to a recipient during the delay period before a message isforwarded to the recipient, messages also may be assigned a permissioncheck property 618. Permission check property 618 can be used, similarlyto expiration date property 602, to determine when a message should notbe sent. For example, in a centralized pacing system, if permissioncheck property 618 is true, the pacing system checks whether aparticipant has opted out of a message before sending the message on tothe recipient.

For discarding similar messages, the pacing system can apply a set ofprecedence rules. For example, the pacing system can have a rule that amessage is discarded if another message of the same or a similar type(or on the same or a similar topic) was delivered within a particulartime period. Alternatively, this type of rule could be used to delay amessage, so that two messages of the same or similar types (or topics)are not sent within a specified time period.

While the preceding volume management functions reduce the volume ofmessages (or the volume of similar messages), it may also be desirableto stimulate the sending of messages when a specified time frame haselapsed without any messages being sent. Thus, in addition to storing aminimum period between messages, the pacing system—can store an upperthreshold period. If the upper threshold period is exceeded without amessage being sent, the pacing system can notify the message sources.

Although some of the message volume management functions have beendescribed in terms of a central pacing system and some in terms of apacing storage system, it should be understood that the functions couldbe implemented with either type of system or a combination of the two.

While there have been shown and described examples of the presentinvention, it will be readily apparent to those skilled in the art thatvarious changes and modifications may be made therein without departingfrom the scope of the invention as defined by the following claims. Forexample, the invention can be implemented with a push system, a pullsystem, an inbox or outbox system, or any other message delivery system.Also, timing periods could be adjusted so that, for example, all e-mailsare sent on a particular day of the week or month, or low prioritymessages are sent only on a particular day. Furthermore, some functionsof a central pacing system can be combined with some functions of apacing storage system (allowing, for example, some messages to be sentdirectly from the message sources to the recipients) as part of anoverall pacing system. Moreover, while some message delivery functionsor properties have been described in terms of global properties and somein terms of personal properties, the delivery algorithms can apply therules globally, at an individual level, or at a group level as desired.Accordingly, the invention is limited only by the following claims andequivalents thereto.

1. A method for managing messages comprising the steps of: receiving, ata pacing system comprising a processor and a data storage system havinga set of computer instructions executable by the processor, a firstmessage from a first message source via a first communication path,wherein the first message includes a first characteristic; sending thefirst message to a recipient on a first channel based on informationstored in the data storage system; receiving, by the pacing system, asecond message from a second message source via a second communicationpath, wherein the second message includes a second characteristic,wherein the second message is received after the first message is sent;determining according to a pacing algorithm, by the pacing system, aseparation between the first message and the second message, the pacingalgorithm considering the second characteristic of the second message;and forwarding the second message to the recipient over a secondchannel.
 2. The method of claim 1, wherein the method further comprisesdetermining that the second message should be sent before an expirationdate of the second message; and sending the second message sooner thanwhat would be provided for by the pacing algorithm, but the secondmessage is not sent immediately.
 3. The method of claim 1, furthercomprising the step of monitoring the pacing of the first message andthe second message and notifying the first message source or the secondmessage source if the first message or the second message is not sentwithin a specified time period.
 4. The method of claim 1, wherein thesecond channel is the same as the first channel.
 5. The method of claim1, wherein the pacing system sorts two or messages to determine thefirst message or the second message.
 6. The method of claim 1, whereinthe first message and the second message comprise an address for theintended recipient when the first message and the second message arereceived by the pacing system.
 7. The method of claim 1, furthercomprising immediately sending the first message.
 8. The method of claim1, wherein the first message and the second message are e-mail messages.9. A system for managing messages comprising: one or more e-mailservers; a pacing system coupled to the one or more e-mail servers, thepacing system comprising a processor and a data storage system having aset of computer instructions executable by the processor to: receive afirst e-mail including intended for a recipient from a first e-mailserver of the one or more e-mail servers, the first e-mail including afirst characteristic; send the first message to a recipient on a firstchannel based on information stored in the data storage system; receivea second message from a second message source via a second communicationpath, wherein the second message includes a second characteristic,wherein the second message is received after the first message is sent;determine according to a pacing algorithm, by the pacing system, aseparation between the first message and the second message, the pacingalgorithm considering the second characteristic of the second message;and send the second message to the recipient over a second channel. 10.The system of claim 9, wherein the second e-mail includes an expirationdate and wherein the pacing system is further operable to: determinethat the second message should be sent before the expiration date of thesecond message; and send the second message sooner than what would beprovided for by the pacing algorithm, but not immediately.
 11. Thesystem of claim 9, wherein the pacing system is further operable tocreate a combined e-mail by combining two or more different e-mailsintended for the recipient into a single e-mail.
 12. The system of claim11, wherein the pacing system is further operable to apply a template todetermine how to format the combined e-mail.
 13. The system of claim 9,wherein the first message and the second message are sent to anidentical e-mail address.
 14. A computer program product comprising anon-transitory computer readable medium storing computer executableinstructions, the computer executable instructions comprisinginstructions executable by a processor to: receive a first e-mailincluding intended for a recipient from a first e-mail server of the oneor more e-mail servers, the first e-mail including a firstcharacteristic; send the first message to a recipient on a first channelbased on information stored in the data storage system; receive a secondmessage from a second message source via a second communication path,wherein the second message includes a second characteristic, wherein thesecond message is received after the first message is sent; determineaccording to a pacing algorithm, by the pacing system, a separationbetween the first message and the second message, the pacing algorithmconsidering the second characteristic of the second message; and sendthe second message to the recipient over a second channel.
 15. Thecomputer program product of claim 14, wherein the second e-mail includesan expiration date and wherein the computer executable instructions arefurther executable to: determine that the second e-mail should be sentbefore the expiration date of the second email; and send the secondemail sooner than what would be provided for by the pacing algorithm,but not immediately.
 16. The computer program product of claim 14,wherein the computer executable instructions are further executable tocreate a combined e-mail by combining two or more e-mails intended forthe recipient into a single e-mail.
 17. The computer program product ofclaim 16, wherein the computer executable instructions are furtherexecutable to apply a template to determine how to format the combinede-mail.
 18. The computer program product of claim 14, wherein the firste-mail and the second e-mail are sent to an identical e-mail address.19. The computer program product of claim 14, wherein the first channeland the second channel are the same.